Curse

I Hate Chips · Jul 27, 2010, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Back to RA again, but never tried to play a monk...
Can someone give me some tips?
I use this build:
OwET0YoWRivQjoB8mwfACc6LtA
But I don't seem to survive in some batlles long enough...

Chucky333 · Jul 27, 2010, 12:19 PM // 12:19

I don't like that build at all.
I just run this: Guardian, Patient, WoH, Dismiss, Shielding Hands, Vig spirit, Veil, Balanced Stance.

People here told me it's bad for RA and it's much better to load up on crap like dolyak, bonneti's and CoP and w\e but i've had much more success with this.
Tips for monking in RA? Have alot of patience and ignore all the crap that will inevitably be thrown at you by some random idiots who overextended miles away or got themselves frenzy locked.

Swahnee · Jul 27, 2010, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Grumpy Bear · Jul 27, 2010, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Tbh, while the build you tried is very effective, I think you'd be best off using a build similar to what Chucky suggests until you get more exp.

Also, what most new to monking do, is make sure that you don't over-cast, or spam your skills, or else you'll soon find yourself our of energy. Use Woh on targets less than 50% HP to get its full benefit. Don't remove conditions that aren't necessarily important. Keeping up vig spirit will help to negate degen from poison and and some hexes.

Its also important to watch you positioning and watch the field so you can see that warrior heading for you and guardian/pre-kite.

The links Swanee posted are really usefull but you may find them a little bewildering at first. Best to master the basics first and then once you are comfortable move on to the more advanced stuff.

HigherMinion · Jul 27, 2010, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Trying to find a build that's less boring than WoH but as effective. PaH is ok, but lacks spike-heal effect. Zealous Benediction/Boon Signet work well in RA?

I Hate Chips · Jul 27, 2010, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

Thx for the links, will sure look up to those (:

Swahnee · Jul 27, 2010, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Yes, it can really seem impressive how much there is around on the subject. I remember my first times getting insta-stomped even after having read so much, so it's definitely true that the best thing to do is practice a lot, trying to add everytime something more. Just start with a standard build (if you aren't experienced with the tactics, i doesn't matter so much what build you run, it only must have some standard skill), learn how to weapon-swap in PvE (just try it with some crappy set, it doesn't have to be full modded: it's just to practice. Also check a recent thread on the Q&A section about weapon swapping to know how to do it), if you aren't practiced with weapon swapping i suggest you not to try it in RA, because it can screw up your play, only try to quickly swap to your defensive set when you are in danger. Other good things to try the first times are, as other mentioned, to use WoH only on people under 50%, NOT to remove poison every time you see it (not to waste energy, rangers can reapply it immediately), to ask teammates to ping hexes/conditions and to remove only the dangerous ones (but beware of cover hexes and conditions), and to kite, kite, kite...you have to constantly run around like a stupid chicken, stopping only to cast. Also, try to die in your low energy set (for example the defensive set): the worst thing you can do is to be resurrected with low energy.

Luminarus · Jul 27, 2010, 02:23 PM // 14:23

The Mo/W defensive template thats really popular in RA is good when you get targeted. However, the second they wail on midline (sin, mesmer, ele without those stupid defence skills, necro etc), you do lose out alot because your survivability comes from reducing damage you yourself take.

Its really difficult to decide which is better, but I find that 90% of the matches im better off with the defensive stuff then losing attributes and skill slots to prots, that tbh any competent player will target switch around.

Gennadios · Jul 27, 2010, 05:56 PM // 17:56

To fully experience the utility of the /w defensive skills on a monk, I'd suggest you play around with a melee class and see how the more experienced monks handle your attacks.

Defensive skills in pvp tend to have a very small window of effectiveness, and unless you know how to use them you're better off going without.

Tharg · Jul 27, 2010, 07:58 PM // 19:58

wouldn't you at least bring Balanced Stance, to avoid continuous KD from a hammer warrior? And then maybe Sprint to get away if you're in trouble?

I Hate Chips · Jul 27, 2010, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Sprint?! Sorry but thats a slot waste, or am I wrong??

Snow Bunny · Jul 27, 2010, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tharg

wouldn't you at least bring Balanced Stance, to avoid continuous KD from a hammer warrior? And then maybe Sprint to get away if you're in trouble?

sprint?

No.

Take bonettis so that you can tank stupid amounts of melee damage to make sure that you can spam WoH and Patient on recharge on a 40/40 set.

Sirius Bsns · Jul 28, 2010, 01:39 AM // 01:39

You can try a more "for the moment" approach like: Life Shealth, Patient Spirit, Guardian, Vigorous Spirit, Dolyaks, Bonetti's, Spotless Mind, Veil.

Veil + Spotless + Vigorous Spirit = awesome hex slow-down/removals with cover enchantment that benefits the ally (especially melee)
Life Sheath = instant blind/weakness removals and anti-spike; these conditions are the most [ab]used in RA, especially on warriors (i.e.: E/N BSurgers with enfeeble, Necros with Enfeeble/Oppressive Gaze
Dolyaks/Bonetti's - mitigates auto-attack damage, helps with energy vs newbs that attack through your Bonetti's; Dolyaks vs those Hammer Warriors, Shove/Trampling Ox/HotO sins/Meteor+Mind Shock Eles/Psy.Instability mesmers, etc.

In summary, you have quick condition/hex-removals as well as enough stances and skills from the warrior line to counter the majority of RAers. The best possible teammates to have would be a dev hammer warrior, mesmer or necromancer, and ranger or assassin, all with some damage-mitigating or self-healing ability. Otherwise, it's tough but still doable. I've personally won many of 25 consecutives in RA using this build, but there's just too many newbs in RA that've eaten away at my willingness to roll monk. That, and Mind Wrack Mesmers...! *cringes*

Swahnee · Jul 28, 2010, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

You can try a more "for the moment" approach like: Life Shealth, Patient Spirit, Guardian, Vigorous Spirit, Dolyaks, Bonetti's, Spotless Mind, Veil.

Veil + Spotless + Vigorous Spirit = awesome hex slow-down/removals with cover enchantment that benefits the ally (especially melee)
Life Sheath = instant blind/weakness removals and anti-spike; these conditions are the most [ab]used in RA, especially on warriors (i.e.: E/N BSurgers with enfeeble, Necros with Enfeeble/Oppressive Gaze
Dolyaks/Bonetti's - mitigates auto-attack damage, helps with energy vs newbs that attack through your Bonetti's; Dolyaks vs those Hammer Warriors, Shove/Trampling Ox/HotO sins/Meteor+Mind Shock Eles/Psy.Instability mesmers, etc.

In summary, you have quick condition/hex-removals as well as enough stances and skills from the warrior line to counter the majority of RAers. The best possible teammates to have would be a dev hammer warrior, mesmer or necromancer, and ranger or assassin, all with some damage-mitigating or self-healing ability. Otherwise, it's tough but still doable. I've personally won many of 25 consecutives in RA using this build, but there's just too many newbs in RA that've eaten away at my willingness to roll monk. That, and Mind Wrack Mesmers...! *cringes*

Yap, using a monk in RA is always a pain. However, i've noticed that you have only one direct heal (patient) in your bar. Is it sufficient? I would be very scared to play without a big heal in my bar, like WoH, Dwayna's, ZB.

On the other hand, i don't like dolyak's/bonetti's combo. Yes, it's very effective in RA because a lot of people keep attacking you even if you are super-defended, but it's a very bad thing when it comes to teach people how to use a monk in PvP. Dolyak's prevents you from kiting (which is an essential skill to master), and bonetti's forces you to attack continuously to charge it, and it's also a skill that invites you to tank instead of to learn how to kite and position yourself properly.

I know that this combo is probably one of the most effective in RA, but if someone is interested in learning the tactics (and not only in working for the glad title), IMHO he should try something different. Balanced/disciplined are good choices in my opinion.

I Hate Chips · Jul 28, 2010, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

I know that this combo is probably one of the most effective in RA, but if someone is interested in learning the tactics (and not only in working for the glad title), IMHO he should try something different. Balanced/disciplined are good choices in my opinion.

I will try both (: the one I am more comfortable to I will choose, I went to RA and had 6 wins in a row (with monk, it's good for me) but then I got ass-kicked by 1 dervish with wounding strike, my team was balling-up and so, 3/4 had deepwound bleeding and poison.. I couldnt heal them in time, and ofc 1 of my teammembers called me noob.. what to do against those? first remove condition then heal?

Fleeting · Jul 28, 2010, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

I will try both (: the one I am more comfortable to I will choose, I went to RA and had 6 wins in a row (with monk, it's good for me) but then I got ass-kicked by 1 dervish with wounding strike, my team was balling-up and so, 3/4 had deepwound bleeding and poison.. I couldnt heal them in time, and ofc 1 of my teammembers called me noob.. what to do against those? first remove condition then heal?

If your team is balling against wounding strike, there's not much you can do w/out Draw Conditions (and even then, it can be a lost cause). Wounding Strike hits like a truck and applies bleed to cover deep wound, it's tough enough healing 1-2 people at a time through it.

I've taken to running something like the general wiki monk with CoP instead of Cure Hex. It seems to work quite well whether I want to play lazytank or kite, but as people have already said, Dolyak can make it difficult to kite well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tharg

wouldn't you at least bring Balanced Stance, to avoid continuous KD from a hammer warrior? And then maybe Sprint to get away if you're in trouble?

Yes to Balanced Stance / anti-KD of choice, no to Sprint. Remember that you can kite regardless of your stance, just running away w/Balanced Stance on still hurts the warrior's adrenaline gain, and you can always charge Bonetti's (if you brought it) while Balanced is up.

Sirius Bsns · Jul 29, 2010, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

Yap, using a monk in RA is always a pain. However, i've noticed that you have only one direct heal (patient) in your bar. Is it sufficient? I would be very scared to play without a big heal in my bar, like WoH, Dwayna's, ZB.

On the other hand, i don't like dolyak's/bonetti's combo. Yes, it's very effective in RA because a lot of people keep attacking you even if you are super-defended, but it's a very bad thing when it comes to teach people how to use a monk in PvP. Dolyak's prevents you from kiting (which is an essential skill to master), and bonetti's forces you to attack continuously to charge it, and it's also a skill that invites you to tank instead of to learn how to kite and position yourself properly.

I know that this combo is probably one of the most effective in RA, but if someone is interested in learning the tactics (and not only in working for the glad title), IMHO he should try something different. Balanced/disciplined are good choices in my opinion.

Bonetti's is one of the most viable sources of mitigating auto-attack damage, stopping melee spikes, and gaining back energy.

Dolyaks, while slowing your movement speed, is irremovable! Balanced Stance can be removed with common skills like Wild Blow, Forceful Blow, or Whirling Axe. The idea behind combining Bonetti's and Dolyaks is you have no intentions of moving! ...lol You plan on charging up Bonetti's as fast as you can while using Guardian to stop physicals in the meantime.

Vigorous Spirit heals you over time, so as long as you have VS on you and are chucking spears to get Bonetti's up, you'll be healing some of the auto-attacks that get passed Guardian.

Life Sheath can help vs big spike damage, but requires timing, foresight, and knowledge. If you PS, then LS immediately after, you're almost guaranteed the full 100+ from PS plus the heal from LS. If you Guardian the right ally at the right time and keep VS on everybody, you can mitigate damage and heal over time. This in turn gives you almost as good over-time healing as a standard WoH Monk.

Spotless Mind removes more hexes over time, benefiting frontliners far more than the one-time Cure Hex red-barring does. i.e.: My warrior's covered in Empathy, IP, Faintheartedness, etc., SM +i VS = GG. Especially when pre-veiled, because now hexes come in twice as slow, and more get removed over time for GGs.

WoH's conditional heals can be offset by others healing themselves, thus causing them to lose the bonus heals. I've learned this when I was WoHing as my monk.
i.e.: I'd use WoH on my mesmer when he's below 50%, but just before my WoH finished, he'd Ether Feast himself, thus negating the bonus. He was healed for 94 health vice the 203 when the bonus is included.

Knowing this, I was like, "Well, if my teammates can mitigate some of the damage with blind/block/etc.. while healing themselves, and if I can remove more conditions [blind, weakness, cripple, burning, etc.] than that of a standard WoH while red-barring ,just slightly less, I can push more wins this way...! YAY!" It is a bit riskier, but it can totally pay off if played right.

This is why I believe that, in a condition/hex-heavy meta, my variant can really flourish.

Swahnee · Jul 29, 2010, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Really interesting things on the healing subject, i will try them

.

Regarding the Dolyak's/Bonetti's, as i said, i have no doubt that they are very effective in RA, and if you are already expert with PvP tactics, i see no problem in you running them. My only concern was that a PvP newbie using that couple of skill will not learn fundamental things like kiting/positioning, so i would suggest something else to someone who is still learning.

Chucky333 · Jul 29, 2010, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear

Tbh, while the build you tried is very effective, I think you'd be best off using a build similar to what Chucky suggests until you get more exp.

I don't really understand how loading up prots is better for inexperienced monks than redbarring skills or extra stances.
It's actually more difficult to do but once you know how to it's just more effective. I find that even with all the crap in RA, mitigating damage is still more effective than just healing through it.

Nechrond · Jul 29, 2010, 09:39 AM // 09:39

I suck at RA. The only way for me to get gladiator points is to spam knocks at enemy Monks. So yeah, Balanced Stance is very good.